Read on GoodReads:
So - it's sinful to hate Twilight :-D
I think it's very prideful of you to share this "correspondence" for people to "enjoy". I would say you think you said what you said well and "showed them".
In fact, you did no such thing. Your English is deplorable and in times makes it harder to understand what you are saying. (Make no mistake, I understand perfectly what you are saying, perhaps better than you'd like...)
I hear some contempt in your calling her "the Disliker". Later you call her "a real loser", and "people" - with quotation marks. Are you even aware of that by using the quotation marks you are saying you don't believe she is a person?
Let's look at her claims. You don't give much, and it's a bit hard to know how she said this, how much of that is your understanding of her words, and so on, but I'm pretty sure that if we were to go through all the things she said about Bella, there are reasonable grounds to form that opinion.
For example, Bella married Edward and didn't have much any contact with her family after that. Her parents didn't even know she had a baby. Did she ever apologize her father for the argument and leaving, or explain things about James and all? I don't think so. She very effectively closed her family out of her life. It is fully reasonable to say that as "Bella deserted her family".
And her "love" for Edward? Most of the things she says about him is that he's so pretty and hot. That's not love, that is lust. Or "physical attraction", if the word "lust" "offends" you. (Grow up. It's totally fine for adults to lust for each other, find each other physically attractive and enjoy sex with each other.)
There is a reasonable doubt that she bases her opinion on the book. She isn't alone in this, even if you haven't heard any other critic mentioning "these negative attibutes". I have. There's even a book written where some of these are discussed. Nevertheless, whether there are others who share her opinion or not is not a base to accuse her of "bearing false witness". People can form very different opinions on the same thing.
Frankly, there is nothing that says this is NOT her sincere, subjective opinion and understanding of what she read.
So - she might be or not be a Christian, and believe in the validity of this "rule", but you are... what does it make of you when you accuse her of something she hasn't done - or something you don't have any evidence of that she has done? Where's YOUR obligation of interpreting her words with kindness?
Also, did she actually WRITE that Stephenie Meyer (Or Stephanie Myers, who ever that is) WROTE those things? Or did she say that "Bella is this and that"? Or even "I think she is..."? If she didn't actually WRITE those words, then YOU ARE bearing a false witness of HER.
People who don't like Bella or Twilight don't like it because they don't like it.
They see the imperfection, flaws, problems, lacks and bad things so very clearly, and then they read a review that praises it to high heavens, and the difference is so huge that they react by trying to understand, and thinking that perhaps you missed it, and they are trying to show these things to you. The more you insist on that there is nothing bad about it, the more people will try to show you that you are wrong. It's not that they say you are wrong for liking it, or seeing the good things, but that you are wrong by refusing to acknowledge it's not perfect. If you just said that you know it's not perfect, but you love it anyway, people would stop trying to show you the faults of it.
So - she is right about that part, too. The fanatic fans are a big part of why people are so "negative" about the book.
Seriously, why would you go on assuming the worst of people?
Also, she didn't say you think it's the Bible. She said that you revere it as if it was the Bible. And this whole response proves her right. You react way too strongly to someone not liking a fictional character.
One sins when one dislikes a book and giving it bad review? You yourself have several 1-2 star reviews.
"See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" is not a "sacred oriental law".
Nevertheless, it doesn't matter if they don't accept the Bible as an authority, YOU do. You should be more mindful about not violating laws you hold sacred than if others do, especially when you don't even know if they accept the Bible as an authority.
“Do not injure the feelings or others“ is not in the Bible. >:->
What the Bible actually say about "injuring the feelings of others" is:
Do you think you are showing kindness and compassion to your "erring" friend by telling her that she is hurting FEELINGS, and supporting your claim by invented Bible quotes? I don't.
I hope Stephenie Meyer is an adult woman and mature enough to know that her work isn't perfect and doesn't please everyone, and that people express their opinion in different ways, and not always nicely. I'm sure, considering the popularity of her work, that she takes any review with a dash of salt - if she even reads them. It's likely she has never heard the "Disliker's" words, and therefore has not had her FEELINGS hurt by them.
It is more likely the "Disliker" "hurt" YOUR FEELINGS. I think this book is very important to you, for some reason. Maybe you feel like a deeply flawed person, and if a vampire can find salvation, so can you? And maybe any and all critique of Bella feels really bad to you, because you love her as if she was your spouse and mate, and it hurts to hear people say "bad things" about her?
It might help to actually say this, instead of trying to make them feel bad for "hurting the author's FEELINGS".
About all the CONFIRMED FOCUS things you said... It's really not quite so, but - for the sake of the argument, let's not talk more about that.
Basically, what it means is that as the "Disliker" is reading the book, she experiences Bella as being a real person, and she forms her opinion on her just like she does with every real person she meets. It's not as if she was experiencing what Bella experienced, the image isn't vivid enough. It's more like watching the television (or reading a book...).
YOU might think Bella is "all that", but SHE doesn't, and she doesn't need to. YOU might assign good qualities, good and commendable motivation to her, but others might not. That YOU don't see the reproachable in her doesn't mean no-one does, or that it isn't there. The impression Bella makes on the reader differs from reader to reader.
Might be that she is reading with a judgmental and negative attitude, but she doesn't go inventing negatives if there aren't any. Everything she sees, everything she experiences, everything she reads IS there. Her INTERPRETATION differs from yours because of the point of view and attitude, but your understanding and idea of Bella is just as subjective and "wrong" as hers is - hers is just as "right" as yours.
I think your references are an effort to appeal to authority. You forget that even there it is your INTERPRETATION of the sources, and your INTERPRETATION is just as valid as every other human beings.
Why do you put your own words in quotation marks as if it was a quote?
Who are these "they"? I assume you mean to say there are "doctor's and scientists" (I'm sorry, but LANGUAGE!) who say these things, because - authorities.
There is no-one but you who claims that the brain cannot distinguish real and "vividly imagined of a trait being enacted". (What ever that means). Now, it really isn't that simple, there's quite a lot more to that than "brain cannot see the difference between real and vividly imagined", but this theory most certainly cannot be used to claim that if we see negative traits in other people, we get those negative traits ourselves. (Go and read your 1- and 2-star reviews with that in mind, and also this writ of yours. What you accuse "the Disliker" of, is what you attract and confirm in you...)
Also, there are no "doctor's and scientists" who confirm The Secret, "Law of Attraction", "manifesting good things in our lives" thing. It is a belief, and whether it "works" or not is totally subjective. You believe it works, fine, good for you. But it's not a fact.
So, your claim that people will become what they see in Bella is pure bull, rather horrible and very conceited.
And you should stop reading the negative reviews about Twilight and reacting to them. The wise thing to do here is to say "I like it, you don't, it's fine, let's agree to disagree", and change the subject. If you don't know these people, there's no need to engage them, just remind yourself of that it's OK people don't like what you like, and move on.
There is a Finnish poem with a valuable message for you. Eino Leino and Song of Happiness.
It goes a bit like this (my translation, I haven't found an English translation done by professionals anywhere):
What I want to say with it is: Twilight means a lot to you. Treasure it. Enjoy it. Love it. Don't seek for anyone else to confirm your feelings and insights, it's your treasure and your happiness. It's your gift. Let others find theirs from other places. And keep it to yourself to protect it from others' scorn and hurtful words.
"does a mother’s thoughts affect unborn baby?"
No. Back in the 18th century they believed that birth marks are due to shocking views the mother experienced during the pregnancy. That wasn't true, either.
Now, the mother's FEELINGS do affect the unborn baby, because chemistry. But "thinking virtuous thoughts" doesn't make the baby a "good heroic character". (Let's not discuss about the consequences of that theory - like, do you really go around blaming your mother for your lusty thoughts?)
The difference between "the Disliker" and you is that
- she speaks about her feelings, thoughts, and impressions, and you try to push yours as "facts" by appealing to authority. Your "quotes", "references" and "authorities" aren't what you would want us to believe. There is no "scientific proof" to your claims.
- you call her names and assign motivation and attitudes to her, she doesn't judge you.
No, the winners are the ones who CHOOSE NOT to assign evil intentions to other GoodRead users just because they don't like what you like, and CHOOSE to "point out" the GOOD in people (not "people" - you can question a lot but not the human value of the person you are talking to!) you interact with because they "want to ATTRACT virtues and good and repel vices".
YOU focus on the faults of "the Disliker", so you "grove" (grow?) those same negative tendencies into your mind, according to your theory.
You are doing exactly what you condemn her for doing, except she does it to a FICTIONAL CHARACTER, you do it to a REAL PERSON. You are trying to shut her up, censor her, threaten her, tell her that she's a bad person, just because she disagrees with you about A FICTIONAL CHARACTER, and then you go boasting about it!
I just HAVE to share this correspondence I had with a twilight “disliker” (enjoy)
(note: This Disliker kept going on and on about everything she “disliked “ about Bella . She attributed negative traits to Bella that did not come up in the books nor had these negative attibutes ( bragging , deserting her family , her love for Edward was 100% lust etc etc) been mentioned by any other critic. She was picking Bella to pieces. Then she posted one reason she disliked Twilight was because she disliked the “twilight fanatics” and that saying I was defending Twilight as if it was the Bible instead of a work of fiction)
Disliker : This site is about BOOKS, so I review Twilight in the standard of reviewing BOOKS, unless Twilight isn't a fictional story book and is instead a vampire BIBLE. THANK YOU for your time.”
Me: Is THAT what you think ? That I equate TWILIGHT with the BIBLE . PLEASE LET ME CLARIFY!!!
Disliker : "A lot of people who dislike Twilight read it because everyone talks about it online, and they re-read it because they want to point out more things that is bad about it."...
Me: I am TOO aware of this !
First let me assure you that I know it is ONLY a fictional book NOT a historical record of actual events like the gospels .
The REASON I quote the GOSPEL of Jesus is NOT to equate Twilight with the Gospel but show that YOU 1-2 star raters who deliberately seek bad in the book and point it out and if you cant find it invent it is that you are sinning . You are Bearing false witness against Stephanie Myers by telling people who read your post that she wrote things she did not . That is breaking gods commandments and if you don’t accept the bible as an authorities and you want an sacred oriental law that you are breaking “SEE NO EVIL , HEAR NO EVIL , SPEAK NO EVIL “ Twilight is not the bible or the scripture . But when YOU bear false witness about what is in the book YOU are in need of a lecture from the Bible . So hear it is: “ Thou salt not bear false witness “ As you sow so shall you reap “ “Judge not lest ye be judged “ “ Do not injure the feelings or others “ So ARE WE CLEAR that the BIBLICAL reference s are meant to dissuade YOU from :
bearing false witness ,
Judging
Hurting others feelings
Sowing negativity and pain that YOU will have to reap
Even Fictional Books are written by Real people, with FEELING just like you have have. Thes authors create characters and characters have the virtues of vices that the author AND THE READER ascribe to them. Let me assure you that I know that the characters are NOT REAL .But let me also assure you that I KNOW that love, humility, strength and courage ascribed to them ARE real.
Also LET me assure you that doctors scientists have CONFIRMED that when we read a book or watch a movie the vices and virtues THAT WE FOCUS ON will make impressions on our subconscious mind every bit as permanent as if it happened in real life . Those impressions create good or bad tendencies just as if WE DID the things we FOCUSED ON . They have also shown that even without a book or movie if we vividly visualize sex , violence , courage or pure love these visions will CHANGE US just as if they happened in real life . (source : Mental toughness Training Manual By DR James Loehr or google positive visualization )
Doctor’s and scientists have also proven that those who go around picking out others faults (wither in books or real life ) attract those faults into their own minds and that those who pick out and focus on peoples virtues(wither in books or real life) attract those virtues into their minds ) They tell us “the subconscious mind can NOT distinguish the difference between reality and a vividly imagined of a virtuous or evil trait being enacted “
Please check out the links below on FOR YOUR REFERENCE :
http://drdavidhamilton.com/does-your-brain-distinguish-real-from-imaginary/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BDSB... (ATTRACT POSTIVES AND REPEL NEGATIVES)
Therefore When 4-5 star raters focus on Positives of a FICTIONAL character we powerfully ATTRACT those positive virtues into the surface of our mind’s . When you 1-2 star raters focus on the negatives of a FICTIONAL character you powerfully attract those negative qualities into your minds . What we choose to focus on in a “Bella” will surely sprout up in us and prompt us to act accordingly . All the BAD the 1-2stars point out in Bella will sprout in their minds. All the GOOD the 4-5stars point out in Bella will sprout in our minds . The wise thing for the 1-2stars to do is stop rereading twilight merely to find and point out more bad and go find something good to focus on.
Doctors and scientists have even proven that a mothers thoughts affect the development for her unborn fetus . If she thinks virtuous thoughts the child will be of good heroic character . If she thinks lustful, angery or greedy thoughts the child will be lustful , angery and greedy. It is NOT what is happening outside in “REAL LIFE” as you call it but IN HER MIND that produces the change .
Please check out the link below about mother’s thoughts FOR YOUR REFERENCE :
https://getfitforbirth.com/a-mothers-emotions-affect-her-unborn-child/
http://tobelieveistobe.com/articles/h...
for 100s of similar referenced google “does a mother’s thoughts affect unborn baby”
The difference between you and me is that :
I back my assertions with quotes and references and authorities.
You back up your assertions with arrogance and sass .
Your wrote “a lot of people who dislike Twilight read it because everyone talks about it online, and they re-read it because they want to point out more things that is bad about it.”
In the LIGHT of the above scientific proof the “people” who read TWILIGHT to “point out” more bad things about it are real losers . They then want to come to good reads and “point out” all the bad things so that it can go into the “winners” minds . The winners are the ones who CHOOSE to “point out “ the GOOD in TWILIGHT because they want to ATTRACT virtues and good and repel vices !
All I was saying in my AIM HIGH message was that Winners focus on the good in others and groove the positive tendencies they focused into their minds. Losers Focus on the faults in others and grove those same negative tendencies into their minds .
Thank you for your time .
and have a Great life in beautiful Shanghai !!!!
( Hey Laugh! –Its good for ya!)
So - it's sinful to hate Twilight :-D
I think it's very prideful of you to share this "correspondence" for people to "enjoy". I would say you think you said what you said well and "showed them".
Do nothing out of rivalry or conceit, but in humility consider others as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
In fact, you did no such thing. Your English is deplorable and in times makes it harder to understand what you are saying. (Make no mistake, I understand perfectly what you are saying, perhaps better than you'd like...)
I hear some contempt in your calling her "the Disliker". Later you call her "a real loser", and "people" - with quotation marks. Are you even aware of that by using the quotation marks you are saying you don't believe she is a person?
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
- Matthew 5:22
Let's look at her claims. You don't give much, and it's a bit hard to know how she said this, how much of that is your understanding of her words, and so on, but I'm pretty sure that if we were to go through all the things she said about Bella, there are reasonable grounds to form that opinion.
For example, Bella married Edward and didn't have much any contact with her family after that. Her parents didn't even know she had a baby. Did she ever apologize her father for the argument and leaving, or explain things about James and all? I don't think so. She very effectively closed her family out of her life. It is fully reasonable to say that as "Bella deserted her family".
And her "love" for Edward? Most of the things she says about him is that he's so pretty and hot. That's not love, that is lust. Or "physical attraction", if the word "lust" "offends" you. (Grow up. It's totally fine for adults to lust for each other, find each other physically attractive and enjoy sex with each other.)
There is a reasonable doubt that she bases her opinion on the book. She isn't alone in this, even if you haven't heard any other critic mentioning "these negative attibutes". I have. There's even a book written where some of these are discussed. Nevertheless, whether there are others who share her opinion or not is not a base to accuse her of "bearing false witness". People can form very different opinions on the same thing.
Frankly, there is nothing that says this is NOT her sincere, subjective opinion and understanding of what she read.
So - she might be or not be a Christian, and believe in the validity of this "rule", but you are... what does it make of you when you accuse her of something she hasn't done - or something you don't have any evidence of that she has done? Where's YOUR obligation of interpreting her words with kindness?
to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.
- Titus 3:2
Also, did she actually WRITE that Stephenie Meyer (Or Stephanie Myers, who ever that is) WROTE those things? Or did she say that "Bella is this and that"? Or even "I think she is..."? If she didn't actually WRITE those words, then YOU ARE bearing a false witness of HER.
"they re-read it because they want to point out more things that is bad about it"No, you aren't. You assume people can't take something so "pure" as Twilight without trying to drag it down to dirt "with them", that people can't stand someone liking something so much, so they decide to dislike it, and find only the faults - or invent faults, ignore the good, just to have a reason to dislike it, or perhaps that they are jealous to Stephenie Meyer. No. (And it isn't very Christian or "heroic" to assume the worst of people, either.)
"I am TOO aware of this!"
People who don't like Bella or Twilight don't like it because they don't like it.
They see the imperfection, flaws, problems, lacks and bad things so very clearly, and then they read a review that praises it to high heavens, and the difference is so huge that they react by trying to understand, and thinking that perhaps you missed it, and they are trying to show these things to you. The more you insist on that there is nothing bad about it, the more people will try to show you that you are wrong. It's not that they say you are wrong for liking it, or seeing the good things, but that you are wrong by refusing to acknowledge it's not perfect. If you just said that you know it's not perfect, but you love it anyway, people would stop trying to show you the faults of it.
So - she is right about that part, too. The fanatic fans are a big part of why people are so "negative" about the book.
Seriously, why would you go on assuming the worst of people?
Also, she didn't say you think it's the Bible. She said that you revere it as if it was the Bible. And this whole response proves her right. You react way too strongly to someone not liking a fictional character.
One sins when one dislikes a book and giving it bad review? You yourself have several 1-2 star reviews.
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
- Matthew 7:5
"See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" is not a "sacred oriental law".
Nevertheless, it doesn't matter if they don't accept the Bible as an authority, YOU do. You should be more mindful about not violating laws you hold sacred than if others do, especially when you don't even know if they accept the Bible as an authority.
“Do not injure the feelings or others“ is not in the Bible. >:->
"Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar." - Proverbs 30:6
What the Bible actually say about "injuring the feelings of others" is:
"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, quarreling, and slander be put away from you, along with all hatred. And be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving one another just as God has forgiven you in the Messiah."
- Ephesians 4:31-32
Do you think you are showing kindness and compassion to your "erring" friend by telling her that she is hurting FEELINGS, and supporting your claim by invented Bible quotes? I don't.
I hope Stephenie Meyer is an adult woman and mature enough to know that her work isn't perfect and doesn't please everyone, and that people express their opinion in different ways, and not always nicely. I'm sure, considering the popularity of her work, that she takes any review with a dash of salt - if she even reads them. It's likely she has never heard the "Disliker's" words, and therefore has not had her FEELINGS hurt by them.
It is more likely the "Disliker" "hurt" YOUR FEELINGS. I think this book is very important to you, for some reason. Maybe you feel like a deeply flawed person, and if a vampire can find salvation, so can you? And maybe any and all critique of Bella feels really bad to you, because you love her as if she was your spouse and mate, and it hurts to hear people say "bad things" about her?
It might help to actually say this, instead of trying to make them feel bad for "hurting the author's FEELINGS".
About all the CONFIRMED FOCUS things you said... It's really not quite so, but - for the sake of the argument, let's not talk more about that.
Basically, what it means is that as the "Disliker" is reading the book, she experiences Bella as being a real person, and she forms her opinion on her just like she does with every real person she meets. It's not as if she was experiencing what Bella experienced, the image isn't vivid enough. It's more like watching the television (or reading a book...).
YOU might think Bella is "all that", but SHE doesn't, and she doesn't need to. YOU might assign good qualities, good and commendable motivation to her, but others might not. That YOU don't see the reproachable in her doesn't mean no-one does, or that it isn't there. The impression Bella makes on the reader differs from reader to reader.
Might be that she is reading with a judgmental and negative attitude, but she doesn't go inventing negatives if there aren't any. Everything she sees, everything she experiences, everything she reads IS there. Her INTERPRETATION differs from yours because of the point of view and attitude, but your understanding and idea of Bella is just as subjective and "wrong" as hers is - hers is just as "right" as yours.
I think your references are an effort to appeal to authority. You forget that even there it is your INTERPRETATION of the sources, and your INTERPRETATION is just as valid as every other human beings.
"Doctor’s and scientists have also proven that those who go around picking out others faults attract those faults into their own minds"Like what you are doing right now with "the Disliker's" faults?
They tell us “the subconscious mind can NOT distinguish the difference between reality and a vividly imagined of a virtuous or evil trait being enacted"
Why do you put your own words in quotation marks as if it was a quote?
Who are these "they"? I assume you mean to say there are "doctor's and scientists" (I'm sorry, but LANGUAGE!) who say these things, because - authorities.
There is no-one but you who claims that the brain cannot distinguish real and "vividly imagined of a trait being enacted". (What ever that means). Now, it really isn't that simple, there's quite a lot more to that than "brain cannot see the difference between real and vividly imagined", but this theory most certainly cannot be used to claim that if we see negative traits in other people, we get those negative traits ourselves. (Go and read your 1- and 2-star reviews with that in mind, and also this writ of yours. What you accuse "the Disliker" of, is what you attract and confirm in you...)
Also, there are no "doctor's and scientists" who confirm The Secret, "Law of Attraction", "manifesting good things in our lives" thing. It is a belief, and whether it "works" or not is totally subjective. You believe it works, fine, good for you. But it's not a fact.
So, your claim that people will become what they see in Bella is pure bull, rather horrible and very conceited.
"The wise thing for the 1-2stars to do is stop rereading twilight merely to find and point out more bad and go find something good to focus on."That is about the best thing you have said here.
And you should stop reading the negative reviews about Twilight and reacting to them. The wise thing to do here is to say "I like it, you don't, it's fine, let's agree to disagree", and change the subject. If you don't know these people, there's no need to engage them, just remind yourself of that it's OK people don't like what you like, and move on.
There is a Finnish poem with a valuable message for you. Eino Leino and Song of Happiness.
It goes a bit like this (my translation, I haven't found an English translation done by professionals anywhere):
"Who has happiness, should hide it.
Who has a treasure, should cover it,
and be happy for their happiness
and rich of their joy all by themselves.
Happiness cannot stand the looks of people.
Who has happiness, should go to the deep forests
and live quietly, all quietly,
and quietly enjoy their happiness."
What I want to say with it is: Twilight means a lot to you. Treasure it. Enjoy it. Love it. Don't seek for anyone else to confirm your feelings and insights, it's your treasure and your happiness. It's your gift. Let others find theirs from other places. And keep it to yourself to protect it from others' scorn and hurtful words.
"does a mother’s thoughts affect unborn baby?"
No. Back in the 18th century they believed that birth marks are due to shocking views the mother experienced during the pregnancy. That wasn't true, either.
Now, the mother's FEELINGS do affect the unborn baby, because chemistry. But "thinking virtuous thoughts" doesn't make the baby a "good heroic character". (Let's not discuss about the consequences of that theory - like, do you really go around blaming your mother for your lusty thoughts?)
The difference between "the Disliker" and you is that
- she speaks about her feelings, thoughts, and impressions, and you try to push yours as "facts" by appealing to authority. Your "quotes", "references" and "authorities" aren't what you would want us to believe. There is no "scientific proof" to your claims.
- you call her names and assign motivation and attitudes to her, she doesn't judge you.
No, the winners are the ones who CHOOSE NOT to assign evil intentions to other GoodRead users just because they don't like what you like, and CHOOSE to "point out" the GOOD in people (not "people" - you can question a lot but not the human value of the person you are talking to!) you interact with because they "want to ATTRACT virtues and good and repel vices".
YOU focus on the faults of "the Disliker", so you "grove" (grow?) those same negative tendencies into your mind, according to your theory.
You are doing exactly what you condemn her for doing, except she does it to a FICTIONAL CHARACTER, you do it to a REAL PERSON. You are trying to shut her up, censor her, threaten her, tell her that she's a bad person, just because she disagrees with you about A FICTIONAL CHARACTER, and then you go boasting about it!
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